Today, Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg appeared on the Joe Rogan Experience podcast, discussing a variety of topics including content moderation, the Trump administration, and Apple’s perceived stagnation in innovation.
Mark Zuckerberg on Joe Rogan
For years, Zuckerberg has criticized App Store policies and Apple’s privacy measures. During his chat with Rogan, he expressed that the fees ranging from 15-30% charged by Apple for App Store transactions serve to obscure the declining sales of the iPhone. He argued that Apple hasn’t genuinely innovated in quite some time, simply resting on the legacy of the iPhone:
“[Apple has] utilized the [iPhone] to implement many rules that seem arbitrary. It feels like they haven’t genuinely invented anything groundbreaking in a while. Steve Jobs created the iPhone, and now they appear to be sitting on it 20 years later.
In fact, year after year, I’m uncertain if their iPhone sales are even increasing at this point; it seems the numbers may actually be falling. One reason is that each new generation isn’t significantly better than its predecessor, so consumers are taking longer to upgrade.
Thus, overall sales appear to be generally flat or declining. So how does Apple maintain its revenue?
It’s by effectively squeezing consumers and imposing this 30% tax on developers.”
Zuckerberg further criticized Apple’s AirPods and their refusal to grant Meta the same access to the iPhone for their Meta Ray-Ban glasses:
“They create products like AirPods, which are impressive, but they have severely restricted the ability for anyone else to create devices that connect to the iPhone in the same manner.
Numerous companies could design excellent earbuds, but Apple has implemented a specific connection protocol that allows AirPods to easily integrate. It’s simply more efficient because they’ve created that capability, yet they don’t permit others to utilize the protocol. Should that be allowed, there would likely be much stronger competitors to AirPods available.
When this issue is raised, Apple becomes very defensive, cloaking their justification in claims that allowing others to connect would jeopardize privacy and security. No, they just need to design a better protocol.
We essentially requested that they allow our Ray-Ban Meta glasses to use the same protocol utilized for AirPods and other devices for a smoother connection experience. One of the protocols they established wasn’t encrypted, so they argued that allowing us to connect would pose a security risk.
However, this lack of security stems from their own design flaws, and now they’re using that as an excuse to restrict easier connections to only their products.”
Zuckerberg remains “optimistic” that Apple will eventually be outperformed by a competitor, suggesting they have strayed from their innovative roots.
He voiced concerns that Apple might one day launch their version of Meta’s Ray-Ban smart glasses, capitalizing on superior integration with the iPhone. Reports from Bloomberg indicate Apple is currently developing its own smart glasses.
The discussion then shifted to iMessage and Apple’s strategic use of blue and green bubbles to create social status:
“Apple’s approach with iMessage, particularly the blue bubble versus green bubble dynamic, is basically designed to humiliate kids. It creates a sense of exclusivity—if you don’t have a blue bubble, you’re considered uncool and marginalized, all while masking it behind the guise of security.”
Later, Rogan and Zuckerberg awkwardly searched online to clarify if RCS messages were encrypted for iPhone users. Apple had added RCS support in iOS 18 last year.
The verdict: RCS does not offer encryption. The current RCS Universal Profile standard from the GSM Association lacks encryption support, although Apple is collaborating with GSMA to enhance RCS’s security instead of creating its own proprietary end-to-end encryption solution.
Lastly, on the topic of Vision Pro:
“Apple launched a $3,500 device that I believe is not as good as our offering for $300 or $400, so it’s clear that wasn’t going to succeed well.
They’re a talented technology firm. I anticipate their second and third iterations will likely be improved upon compared to the first. The Vision Pro represents one of the most significant attempts at innovation they’ve made in quite some time.”
DMN’s Insights
This week, Zuckerberg has been preoccupied rolling out new, dehumanizing content guidelines on Facebook, Instagram, and Threads. I’m astonished he managed to find time to engage with Rogan for this extensive three-hour conversation.
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